diff --git a/basegraph.cpp b/basegraph.cpp
index 6224201e..e1cbb30c 100644
--- a/basegraph.cpp
+++ b/basegraph.cpp
@@ -1516,12 +1516,14 @@ EX void initialize_all() {
 
   DEBBI(DF_INIT | DF_GRAPH, ("initgraph"));
   
+  DEBB(DF_INIT, ("initconfig"));
   initConfig();
 
 #if CAP_SDLJOY
   joyx = joyy = 0; joydir.d = -1;
 #endif
   
+  DEBB(DF_INIT, ("restartGraph"));
   restartGraph();
   
   if(noGUI) {
@@ -1531,11 +1533,14 @@ EX void initialize_all() {
     return;
     }
 
+  DEBB(DF_INIT, ("preparesort"));
   preparesort();
 #if CAP_CONFIG
+  DEBB(DF_INIT, ("loadConfig"));
   loadConfig();
 #endif
 #if CAP_ARCM
+  DEBB(DF_INIT, ("parse symbol"));
   arcm::current.parse();
 #endif
   if(mhybrid) geometry = hybrid::underlying;
@@ -1544,19 +1549,26 @@ EX void initialize_all() {
   arg::read(2);
 #endif
 
+  DEBB(DF_INIT | DF_GRAPH, ("init graph"));
   init_graph();
+  DEBB(DF_INIT | DF_POLY, ("check CGI"));
   check_cgi();
+  DEBB(DF_INIT | DF_POLY, ("require basic"));
   cgi.require_basics();
   
+  DEBB(DF_INIT | DF_GRAPH, ("init font"));
   init_font();
 
 #if CAP_SDLJOY  
-  initJoysticks();
+  initJoysticks_async();
 #endif
 
 #if CAP_SDLAUDIO
+  DEBB(DF_INIT, ("init audio"));
   initAudio();
 #endif
+
+  DEBB(DF_INIT, ("initialize_all done"));
   }
 
 EX void quit_all() {
diff --git a/config.cpp b/config.cpp
index bb20f12e..355a1690 100644
--- a/config.cpp
+++ b/config.cpp
@@ -1278,6 +1278,8 @@ EX void initConfig() {
   -> help("Background particle effects, e.g., in the Blizzard.");
   // control
   
+  param_enum(joy_init, "joyinit", jiFast)
+    ->editable({{"off", "do not use joysticks"}, {"fast", "do not wait until the joysticks are initialized"}, {"wait", "wait until the joysticks are initialized"}}, "joystick initialization", 'j');
   param_i(vid.joyvalue, "vid.joyvalue", 4800);
   param_i(vid.joyvalue2, "vid.joyvalue2", 5600);
   param_i(vid.joysmooth, "vid.joysmooth", 200);
@@ -2427,6 +2429,8 @@ EX void showJoyConfig() {
   dialog::addSelItem(XLAT("second joystick: panning speed"), fts(vid.joypanspeed * 1000), 'd');
   dialog::addSelItem(XLAT("smoothen"), its(vid.joysmooth) + " ms", 'e');
 
+  add_edit(joy_init);
+
   dialog::addBreak(50);
   dialog::addBack();
   dialog::display();
diff --git a/control.cpp b/control.cpp
index 865dee77..5d5f5a51 100644
--- a/control.cpp
+++ b/control.cpp
@@ -212,16 +212,30 @@ EX void mousemovement() {
 EX SDL_Joystick* sticks[8];
 EX int numsticks;
 
-EX void initJoysticks() {
+EX bool joysticks_initialized;
 
-  if (SDL_InitSubSystem(SDL_INIT_JOYSTICK) == -1)
-  {
-    printf("Failed to initialize joysticks.\n");
-    numsticks = 0;
-    return;
+#if HDR
+enum eJoystickInit { jiNoJoystick, jiFast, jiWait };
+#endif
+EX eJoystickInit joy_init = jiFast;
+
+#if CAP_THREAD
+EX std::thread *joythread;
+std::atomic<bool> joystick_done(false);
+#endif
+
+EX void initJoysticks_async() {
+  if(joy_init == jiNoJoystick) return;
+  #if CAP_THREAD
+  if(joy_init == jiWait) { initJoysticks(); return; }
+  joythread = new std::thread([] { initJoysticks(); joystick_done = true; });
+  #else
+  initJoysticks();
+  #endif
   }
 
-  DEBB(DF_INIT, ("init joysticks"));
+EX void countJoysticks() {
+  DEBB(DF_INIT, ("opening joysticks"));
   numsticks = SDL_NumJoysticks();
   if(numsticks > 8) numsticks = 8;
   for(int i=0; i<numsticks; i++) {
@@ -235,6 +249,22 @@ EX void initJoysticks() {
     }
   }
 
+EX void initJoysticks() {
+
+  DEBBI(DF_INIT, ("init joystick"));
+
+  DEBB(DF_INIT, ("init joystick subsystem"));
+  if (SDL_InitSubSystem(SDL_INIT_JOYSTICK) == -1)
+  {
+    printf("Failed to initialize joysticks.\n");
+    numsticks = 0;
+    return;
+  }
+
+  countJoysticks();
+  joysticks_initialized = true;
+  }
+
 EX void closeJoysticks() {
   DEBB(DF_INIT, ("close joysticks"));
   for(int i=0; i<numsticks; i++) {
@@ -1000,6 +1030,7 @@ EX void mainloopiter() {
   fix_mouseh();
   #if CAP_SDLJOY
   if(joydir.d != -1) checkjoy();
+  if(joystick_done && joythread) { joythread->join(); delete joythread; joystick_done = false; }
   #endif
   }
 
@@ -1015,8 +1046,7 @@ EX void handle_event(SDL_Event& ev) {
 /*    if(ev.type == SDL_JOYDEVICEADDED || ev.type == SDL_JOYDEVICEREMOVED) {
       joyx = joyy = 0;
       panjoyx = panjoyy = 0;
-      closeJoysticks();
-      initJoysticks();
+      countJoysticks();
       } */
 
     #if CAP_SDL2